Erin, as I plan to uproot my entire life, I was thinking this exact thing. This article makes me question the ethics of what I’m doing and how to move forward in an ethical way.
Hi Tracy, I believe there are thoughtful and productive ways to engage in the communities we visit. We just need to be aware of the impact of our presence and intentional with our actions as we work to minimize / counteract the disruption.
I fully support the nomad life and think it has many benefits to us as individuals, the communities we visit, and, more generally, the global community.
This is the piece I wish more people had the guts to write. You said the quiet part with real heart, and it lands. Thank you for being honest about standing inside the thing while you name it. That takes something. Excellent work.
Those DNV visas were created a few years ago when the economy was different. They're probably more counterproductive for locals now. If you wanted to regulate them, one example might be that Italian 7% retirement visa that's limited to certain towns. Give DNV visas but only if you live in places that actually need population. Porto or Barcelona don't need more ex-pats.
Although I question if the comparitively small numbers of DNV are actually affecting much? I think it's a small part of a much bigger problem, mostly short term tourism and migration from northern Europe.
How many digital nomads are there actually?
People from the US are often held up as the bogeyman in these situations. People are surprised to know that there's about 45,000 legal US residents in Spain. About 25,000 legal US residents in Italy. In Spain and Portugal only about 10 or 15% of these numbers are digital nomads. In Italy, it's just a few hundred. Although if they cluster in certain neighborhoods, I guess they have a local outsize effect.
From the way you read about it you would think there's a half 1 million in each country. At least in southern Europe, this expat boom is being driven more by northern Europeans, or people actually immigrating from South America, Morocco, or Asia.
These statistics are easy to find from government sources. Start with Wikipedia to easily find direct links.
Don’t get me started on the 7% flat tax (far from being a visa) for retired people. Useless (or nearly useless for the destinations) and the result is a joke. Less than 1000 moved with it after 5 years. A massive marketing stunt with 0 benefits (or nearly 0)… but, to be honest, in countries like Italy the DNV effect is still invisible
Well I was just suggesting possible ways you might avoid the effect where certain neighborhoods become unlivable for locals because so many digital nomads are moving in.
I wasn’t talking about the 7% tax regime, but actually that you would geographically limit where you could use the DNV visas. If you want to be a digital nomad in a small town that needs population, that’s great. But if you want to set up shop in Travastere? Sorry. You’re right. There wouldn’t be many takers. The world is open to better suggestions.
Obviously this isn’t really a problem in Italy. Maybe Spain and Portugal.
DNV visa were created when these countries were experiencing different economies. They’re actually probably counterproductive in most places now. They probably should eliminate them.
Although I do think that most of the problems some of these European cities are experiencing have nothing to do with the DNV visas. The housing prices are going up because of pressure from tourism (mostly) and secondly immigrants from Northern Europe looking for better weather and lower costs.
I know lots of people who built or refurbished houses in rough neighborhoods. But you get enough people interested in doing the same thing, it eventually comes a tipping point.
Sounds tough. But I’m not familiar with the “rough neighborhoods” of Nashville. I only know what I’ve seen in NYC, DC and Miami. I hope it works out for you
Do you mean just some random person who appeared one day in your “rough neighborhood” who happened to have a pile of money to refurbish, build or buy a house there? Or maybe an investor or developer who did one of those things? Or do you mean an actual resident of a “rough neighborhood” who did one of those things to improve his or her living standards? The first two are gentrifiers.
First, define resident? They might live there initially for 4 or 5 years. They renovate old properties. Many retirees who have downsized or not ready to retire come in with cash offers want to purchase homes to convert to rental incomes as way of passive investment. Then usually the investors and property management groups come.
I saw it plainly with Nashville. Now everyone from states that have high property taxes and state income taxes have bought the plum properties and pushed would-be long term residents further towards the less developed parts of Tennessee.
I have been priced out of 4 cities so far. I used to have a remote job and that has changed too. Now people are running back to the cities at exhortation prices or face mega commutes 2 hours+ one-way.
Appreciate the frank discussion. Kudos for articulating what most of us are all experiencing.
Perhaps a follow-up article is what we, as nomads, can do (besides being clear-eyed) to create a more equitable situation.
Happy to work on it with my team
Excellent!! I'm hosting a online meetup next week to discuss this very issue. DM if you'd like to join.
Sure!!!
😊 All are welcome to join the conversation! https://substack.com/@yournomadlife/note/p-204612833?r=41rzw8
Erin, as I plan to uproot my entire life, I was thinking this exact thing. This article makes me question the ethics of what I’m doing and how to move forward in an ethical way.
Hi Tracy, I believe there are thoughtful and productive ways to engage in the communities we visit. We just need to be aware of the impact of our presence and intentional with our actions as we work to minimize / counteract the disruption.
I fully support the nomad life and think it has many benefits to us as individuals, the communities we visit, and, more generally, the global community.
This is the piece I wish more people had the guts to write. You said the quiet part with real heart, and it lands. Thank you for being honest about standing inside the thing while you name it. That takes something. Excellent work.
Thanks 🙏
Those DNV visas were created a few years ago when the economy was different. They're probably more counterproductive for locals now. If you wanted to regulate them, one example might be that Italian 7% retirement visa that's limited to certain towns. Give DNV visas but only if you live in places that actually need population. Porto or Barcelona don't need more ex-pats.
Although I question if the comparitively small numbers of DNV are actually affecting much? I think it's a small part of a much bigger problem, mostly short term tourism and migration from northern Europe.
How many digital nomads are there actually?
People from the US are often held up as the bogeyman in these situations. People are surprised to know that there's about 45,000 legal US residents in Spain. About 25,000 legal US residents in Italy. In Spain and Portugal only about 10 or 15% of these numbers are digital nomads. In Italy, it's just a few hundred. Although if they cluster in certain neighborhoods, I guess they have a local outsize effect.
From the way you read about it you would think there's a half 1 million in each country. At least in southern Europe, this expat boom is being driven more by northern Europeans, or people actually immigrating from South America, Morocco, or Asia.
These statistics are easy to find from government sources. Start with Wikipedia to easily find direct links.
Don’t get me started on the 7% flat tax (far from being a visa) for retired people. Useless (or nearly useless for the destinations) and the result is a joke. Less than 1000 moved with it after 5 years. A massive marketing stunt with 0 benefits (or nearly 0)… but, to be honest, in countries like Italy the DNV effect is still invisible
Well I was just suggesting possible ways you might avoid the effect where certain neighborhoods become unlivable for locals because so many digital nomads are moving in.
I wasn’t talking about the 7% tax regime, but actually that you would geographically limit where you could use the DNV visas. If you want to be a digital nomad in a small town that needs population, that’s great. But if you want to set up shop in Travastere? Sorry. You’re right. There wouldn’t be many takers. The world is open to better suggestions.
Obviously this isn’t really a problem in Italy. Maybe Spain and Portugal.
DNV visa were created when these countries were experiencing different economies. They’re actually probably counterproductive in most places now. They probably should eliminate them.
Although I do think that most of the problems some of these European cities are experiencing have nothing to do with the DNV visas. The housing prices are going up because of pressure from tourism (mostly) and secondly immigrants from Northern Europe looking for better weather and lower costs.
You just described gentrification and it exists period in every single culture.
Fun Fact: No one has ever called themselves a gentrifier. They always find another word or description for it.
I know lots of people who built or refurbished houses in rough neighborhoods. But you get enough people interested in doing the same thing, it eventually comes a tipping point.
Sounds tough. But I’m not familiar with the “rough neighborhoods” of Nashville. I only know what I’ve seen in NYC, DC and Miami. I hope it works out for you
Do you mean just some random person who appeared one day in your “rough neighborhood” who happened to have a pile of money to refurbish, build or buy a house there? Or maybe an investor or developer who did one of those things? Or do you mean an actual resident of a “rough neighborhood” who did one of those things to improve his or her living standards? The first two are gentrifiers.
First, define resident? They might live there initially for 4 or 5 years. They renovate old properties. Many retirees who have downsized or not ready to retire come in with cash offers want to purchase homes to convert to rental incomes as way of passive investment. Then usually the investors and property management groups come.
I saw it plainly with Nashville. Now everyone from states that have high property taxes and state income taxes have bought the plum properties and pushed would-be long term residents further towards the less developed parts of Tennessee.
I have been priced out of 4 cities so far. I used to have a remote job and that has changed too. Now people are running back to the cities at exhortation prices or face mega commutes 2 hours+ one-way.
It’s the same for tourists. Nobody really wants the tourist around. They just want their money.
thoughtful words
One of the problems is that the DNV’s are issued nationally. Localities have little say in who ends up where.
I just wish they would pay taxes. That’s it. That’s really it.
If they get legal DNV visas, I assume they are actually paying taxes? If they’re illegals, of course they’re not.
It depends on the country, the visa, if the visa requires they pay taxes, and if they even respect the rules of the country they are in.
If they don't respect the terms of the visa of the country they're in they should be fined and kicked out. I guess easier said than done…
Jfc